Being an in-house SEO for Every Enterprise business Company is important

Hey anybody, welcome lower back to Search Session! I’m your host, Gianluca Fiorelli—and these days’s episode is one you gained’t want to miss.

Joining me is a person I’ve widespread inside the search engine marketing world for quite some time: Gus Pelogia. He’s originally from Brazil, however his career has taken him throughout continents—from Argentina to the Netherlands, and now to Ireland, where he’s the Senior search engine marketing Product Manager at Indeed.

Gus brings a completely unique attitude, formed through his historical past in journalism and over a decade of palms-on SEO enjoy, each company-side and in-residence. We speak about what it without a doubt means to force change inside a massive organization, how AI is reshaping the search engine optimization landscape, and why curiosity and collaboration nonetheless count number greater than ever.

From constructing search engine marketing experiments in Google Colab to launching the SearchIRL meetups in Dublin, Gus shares considerate, sensible insights—and a number relatable stories from his international career.

Let’s dive in!

Transcript
Gianluca Fiorelli: Hi everyone, and welcome back to a new episode of Search Session!

Before we dive in, don’t forget to hit the bell and subscribe so that you get all the updates on new episodes—never miss one!

Meet Gus Pelogia
Today, we’re having a simply first-rate communication with someone I certainly appreciate. His call is Gus Pelogia—he is Brazilian however has lived pretty the nomadic search engine optimization life. He started his journey in Brazil, then moved to Argentina, then Europe—specially the Netherlands—and eventually landed in Ireland.

Gus is currently the Senior search engine marketing Product Manager at Indeed, and he’s been within the search engine optimization recreation for nearly two decades—just like me! What’s wild is he still seems so young, it’s truly astounding.

Good morning, correct evening—wherever you’re in the global, welcome! Hi Gus, how are you doing?

Gus Pelogia: Yeah, doing simply nicely—thanks a lot for the intro and for having me on. Everything you said is spot-on. I’ve lived in pretty some one of a kind international locations over time. I genuinely found search engine optimization when I left Brazil—I became a journalist before that.

I’ve been running in search engine marketing for approximately 12 or 13 years now. Hopefully, I’ll make it to 20 at some point—now not quite there but, but that’s the purpose! I genuinely love what I do. There’s continually some thing new to research, and that’s what continues me so obsessed on this discipline.

Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, yeah, I noticed that you started out as a journalist, which I observed without a doubt interesting. I suppose it’s important to remind human beings—especially the younger generation of SEOs—that lots of us didn’t start in this area with a conventional search engine marketing background.

We all come from exclusive expert paths or academic studies. You, for instance, have been a journalist, so you likely studied journalism, communications, or some thing alongside the ones lines. In my case, again within the preceding century—actually—I studied literature and linguistics.

So despite the fact that SEO doesn’t require a technical diploma to get started out, it’s some thing you may examine. And you’re a exceptional example of that, as we’ll discover for the duration of this verbal exchange. What in reality matters is having a curious thoughts. All the stories you’ve had earlier than tend to return again and serve you in surprising ways.

Agency vs. In-House search engine optimization
Gianluca Fiorelli: Now, you are running at a simply big organization. I checked the LinkedIn page for Indeed—it says “10,000+ personnel,” so it’s large. And if I’m not wrong, that is your first in-house search engine marketing function, right? Or is there something earlier than this?

Gus Pelogia: I had a chunk of revel in earlier than—again in Argentina and in Holland. I worked in-house, but constantly with smaller teams. I’d never had a role in any such large corporation, with a massive search engine marketing crew and other specialists operating along me. So this feels very distinct from any search engine optimization paintings I’ve accomplished earlier than.

Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, for positive—it definitely is a huge difference. Being the handiest search engine optimization, or maybe the only digital advertising and marketing man or woman in a corporation, is a whole different experience as compared to operating at a massive business enterprise like Indeed.

But what I’m virtually extra curious about is your experience working with a person like Wolfgang Digital in Ireland. I recognize them properly from judging their entries within the European Search Awards, and that they’ve usually stood out.

So, what’s been the largest shift for you in shifting from a exceedingly huge organization like Wolfgang to running in-residence? What type of impact did that alternate have—going from being on the agency aspect, helping large companies, to now being on the corporation aspect, hiring groups?

Gus Pelogia: Yeah, that’s a in reality appropriate question — and clearly, something I think about sometimes.

Working at Wolfgang changed into an top notch enjoy. You get to paintings with many clients, which means you are continuously coping with exceptional scenarios. It’s exciting due to the fact you come to be mastering a little bit about everything — PPC, social, search engine optimization. After maybe the primary year or , I additionally started out running as a customer manager.

That role sincerely changed how I notion approximately the paintings. It wasn’t just about doing good SEO or producing technical or content material deliverables — it have become greater about how to maintain customers satisfied and confident within the process. Even if we hadn’t hit the stop aim but, how should I inform the story in a way that helped them see the development? That things had been transferring in the proper course, that we were trying out and mastering, and that the method was starting to take form.

Then, moving in-residence, the largest shift was probable how tons time I now spend constructing the ones memories. I’d say maybe 1/2 my activity is simply aligning matters before execution even starts offevolved.

For example, if we need to do some thing easy like inner linking among two merchandise, I don’t just move do it. I speak to the product manager from the other group, take a look at if they’re using the equal tech stack, see in the event that they’re open to the idea, and recognize what the gain is for them too. Then, before something occurs, I write up an in depth product requirement document — what we want to do, how we’ll measure it, how lengthy it’ll take, how an awful lot it’ll value, all of that.

So yeah, a number of my work is the “before” paintings — placing the level so we can honestly get things carried out. And fun fact: I don’t in reality realize how to code!

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Pre-Production and Stakeholder Alignment
Gianluca Fiorelli: Uh, we could—yeah, we could name it, uh, drawing from my background in the audiovisual industry—we ought to name it the pre-production section.

Gus Pelogia: Yeah, completely. So, you’re meeting with stakeholders from throughout — UX parents, engineers, whoever. And even if it’s simply to say, “Hey, I’m pitching this idea, and it appears exceptionally smooth to do — is it sincerely smooth?” you need to bring them in early. Because they’re those who’ll clearly be doing the paintings, proper? So it’s like, “I’m speakme on your behalf here, but please come take a glance with me.”

That’s whilst you start accumulating comments. And people get a little excited, because there’s something in it for all of us — content material, UX, search engine optimization. By the time you get to execution, anybody’s already acquainted with the idea. And in a organisation this huge, when you do pass the needle — like, allow’s say you add 3 million, five million, or even 10 million classes in step with week — that’s a large deal.

And every now and then, even when things don’t circulate, that’s okay too. Because regularly you’re nonetheless in those strategic debates — have to we do this or that? Or maybe in an effort to even get permission to do something, we want to improve the product first before the alternative crew will allow us to flow ahead.

So yeah, all of the checking out and instruction — it’s stuff I hadn’t certainly finished earlier than, however now I see how important it’s far. Sometimes, I’m midway via writing a PRD and comprehend, “Wait, I don’t recognize a way to measure this.” It’s an search engine marketing concept, and sure, humans say “this works” or “that works” in idea, however once I spoil it all down, I’m like… will this actually paintings?

Then I begin wondering, okay — two months from now, I’ll be in a room with the identical humans. How am I going to prove this worked? And if I can’t persuade myself, I’ll every so often drop the assignment before it even begins.

But maybe that’s just a part of the method — to simply recognize what’s being executed, and to persuade yourself and others that it has a real shot at becoming some thing impactful.

Working with Agencies & Consultants
Gianluca Fiorelli: Uh, yeah, sincerely—it is thrilling. But permit’s strive searching at another situation. Say you are the lead search engine optimization at a agency. Maybe you have got outside assets—like a consultant for a particular undertaking or an organization managing some thing bigger, like a prime PR campaign.

How can that external person in reality help you communicate the cost of what you’re doing—especially at some point of this early, pre-manufacturing phase?

Gus Pelogia: Yeah, so the last time I labored directly with an employer or a representative become at a previous in-residence function—before Indeed. It become thrilling due to the fact this representative had heaps of ideas for things we desired to do. But being on the opposite side—in the direction of the individuals who surely approve things or deliver the inexperienced light—you start to recognize, ok, this individual doesn’t virtually care about this or they don’t see the capacity right here.

So you start to ask yourself: Where can this representative truely make an effect? What are the regions wherein they are able to definitely help us flow ahead?

I’ve had conditions within the past wherein I become doing audits, and I knew—like ninety% certain—that none of it become going to be carried out. It felt like I was simply ticking a field. I’d spend weeks making ready audits, constructing spreadsheets, explaining the whole thing… understanding full properly that nobody changed into going to take a look at it critically.

Now that I’m on the alternative side, I see how critical it’s miles to focus on the regions in which a consultant or agency can own some thing cease-to-cease. Maybe it’s something we don’t have the in-residence understanding for. Or maybe it’s something where the important thing stakeholders—like my supervisor overseeing all of virtual advertising, no longer just search engine marketing—will sincerely get behind it.

It’s absolutely about finding that sweet spot: the areas wherein a person can simply supply, in which the work will absolutely get implemented. That’s the middle floor you need. Because otherwise, it simply turns into someone generating reports or deliverables that human beings glance at and say, oh, that’s interesting, but nothing ever comes of it.

Gianluca Fiorelli: Interesting, interesting… It absolutely is. I changed into nodding along as you spoke, mainly from the angle of a consultant. Your insights resonate lots.

As a person who’s been a consultant for many years, I had to examine—frequently the hard manner—that it’s not about jumping straight into presenting a service or pitching a solution. At first, I used to head in with the conventional “here’s what I can do for you” technique. But over the years, I found out it’s a good deal more valuable to begin by asking masses of questions—in particular approximately the commercial enterprise itself—earlier than even suggesting a capacity collaboration.

That manner, when we do present a quote or idea, it’s significant. It’s now not just a few cookie-cutter pitch or reproduction-pasted service list. I completely consider you—that is a ability I needed to increase through the years, particularly in view that I’ve never labored in-house. I needed to analyze this attitude shift myself.

Now, you mentioned operating in-residence with smaller organizations as well. In my experience, the project in smaller businesses is regularly the founder or proprietor being very principal to each choice. On one hand, this could be a bottleneck. But then again, it’s a short chain of command—there aren’t a dozen layers of hierarchy to get thru simply to speak to a decision-maker. So in that experience, it’s greater direct.

Navigating Big Company Bureaucracy: Gus’s Framework for Speed
But with larger businesses, of route, it’s natural for there to be a greater complicated structure, extra layers of bureaucracy. And without going into any specifics, I’m curious—how do you control to move through the ones steps more speedy? Because from my very own revel in consulting with large enterprises, one of the major challenges is the time it takes to make decisions. And specifically now, when matters are transferring speedy, that put off can be a actual problem.

Gus Pelogia: That’s actual. Yeah. I even have to say, I’ve been sincerely lucky with Indeed due to the fact I generally get to transport things speedy.

I’ll provide you with an example. I wanted to test whether or not adding a link to the pinnacle navigation would have any impact on traffic. The link already existed inside the footer of the equal web page, however there had been a variety of debates about putting it up pinnacle. The thinking became: if we upload it to the pinnacle nav, it should force greater traffic, right? Since it’s in a greater prominent spot.

But there was additionally pushback. Some human beings felt the product needed to improve earlier than it “earned” that placement—because it become a content product, there had been questions about whether it changed into well worth such visibility.

Eventually, that mission landed on my plate. So I went to the product manager who owned it and asked, “Hey, can we take a look at this?” We had a lot of these improvement hints floating round, but I idea, what if we simply run an A/B test and spot if it even makes a difference? Because if it doesn’t, then we might be spending time on something that’s now not truly impactful.

I advised him, “I’m on pinnacle of this. I have already got monitoring set up. Here’s the plan: we’ll test it in a small us of a, run it for a month, and measure the results.” I basically pitched him this complete concept—he didn’t recognise me, however he said, “Okay, perhaps you can try it on this united states, or that one—pick out one.”

So I did. If I had said I desired to run this inside the U.S., that communication might’ve taken months. But doing a version in a smaller market? That was conceivable.

Turns out… the take a look at showed no real change. The hyperlink within the footer was probable doing enough already. That is going in opposition to what we would assume as SEOs—we’d anticipate including a outstanding nav hyperlink could help. But it didn’t. Maybe it became better for users, positive, however that’s a separate verbal exchange.

What we desired to measure became the SEO impact—would it not pressure extra site visitors to the linked pages below that product? And it didn’t.

So, I’m usually attempting to find ways to check matters on a smaller scale. Can I try this in only one united states? Can I avoid including layers of work and deal with it greater like a minimal possible product or an experiment? If it works—say we get a 20% site visitors increase—then that’s a totally exceptional conversation. Now I can go back and say, “Look, we examined it, it worked, and I can almost guarantee effects.”

That’s way more compelling than pronouncing, “Hey, let’s try this for search engine optimization,” specifically whilst you’re speaking to a person who isn’t even in the search engine marketing international.

At a massive agency, there are constantly layers. But going out and speaking to humans in each team—understanding how they do things—it’s a good deal easier while you’re at the inner. You’ve were given Slack, shared agencies, and on occasion it’s just about finding someone who is aware of a person who can introduce you.

Like, I might be operating with a person who shares an office with the character I want to reach, and they are able to literally walk over and say, “Hey, can you provide this man or woman a few minutes to chat?”

Even in a faraway-first global, building relationships is massive for getting matters accomplished. That’s a massive a part of how I method my paintings.

Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, sure. Uh, understanding humans—even if the circumstances are commonly far off—is certainly vital. It just makes things cross greater easily whilst you’re operating collectively. If you’re only retaining a type of sterile, impersonal dating, it turns into lots more difficult to collaborate efficaciously.

You stated, as an instance, this situation—permit’s say you are running in a small united states. And then, k, permit’s take it a step similarly and communicate about running throughout a couple of countries. Honestly, I’m now not precisely sure how it’s organized in each case, like with Indeed, for example. But from what I’ve seen, especially on the subject of organisation customers, there’s regularly this centralized structure wherein all the key choices—specially technical ones—are made at the pinnacle.

Then you may have a smaller, from time to time more advanced advertising team. But commonly, it is greater of a generalist crew—perhaps two people dealing with the whole thing from PPC to communications to SEO. So, no longer always a dedicated SEO team.

Rolling Out Global search engine marketing Features
Gianluca Fiorelli: So I’m curious—how do you personally manage matters whilst you’re in that form of setup? Like, say you need to roll out a new feature. Do you launch it concurrently in every united states of america? Or do you’re taking a phased technique?

I don’t forget a classic example with Apple.Com—the shop rollout came about us of a via usa, based totally on how important every market turned into to the enterprise. So how do you organize things when you’re managing lots of teams immediately?

Gus Pelogia: Yeah, it is able to actually get chaotic at times. I typically try and begin small—one usa, maybe two—and once you can show the effect, that’s whilst things start to grow. But then, of path, you need to begin coordinating with lots more teams, which adds complexity.

If we’re speaking about some thing like process seek, that’s greater of the middle product. There are extra humans worried, extra eyes on it, and greater care taken to make certain everything runs flawlessly. So clearly, things can take a chunk longer to release.

I’ve visible features roll out to simply 1% of users, and at first, you might assume, “Oh, that’s slightly something.” But then you realize, even at 1%, you start noticing issues—maybe the page is loading slower or fewer human beings are applying for jobs. That can be irritating, especially for a person like me who likes to transport speedy, launch speedy, and analyze as I pass.

But after you’re operating across more than one teams, you absolutely ought to take each person into account. Things will slow down, and that’s no longer always a terrible thing. From the corporation’s attitude—specially out of doors of SEO—human beings take into account that testing and liberating features takes time.

On my stop, though, I’ve occasionally pushed for something to be released globally, across all nations and customers—specifically if it’s a change that’s in basic terms SEO-associated. Then three months later, in the course of a overall performance evaluation, my supervisor asks, “What became the impact of that change?” And I realise we didn’t genuinely degree it nicely. Maybe we assumed it worked because we saw something comparable carry out well ultimate 12 months, but without statistics, I can’t surely display the way it moved the needle.

So yeah, sometimes you want someone to pump the brakes and say, “Let’s do this little by little.” Because even for profession increase, tying your work to measurable impact topics more than just doing a gaggle of factors and assuming they’re all making a difference. Some will, but some won’t—and the numbers are what certainly inform that story.

Localization & International search engine optimization
Gianluca Fiorelli: Interesting, exciting. So in terms of something like localization, how an awful lot freedom do you surely give to the neighborhood teams? I suggest, positive, the technical side typically remains the identical—it’s regular throughout all versions. But with regards to really localizing, personalizing matters—like how content material is offered, or how a function in a manual is explained for one usa versus some other—how an awful lot flexibility do the neighborhood teams have?

Basically, how plenty agility and freedom do you supply them so they don’t sense too restricted or tied down by the overarching policies of the primary headquarters?

Gus Pelogia: I’m not positive I have a entire solution for you here, however we do have local groups—or teams that handle localization—for specific areas. For example, if some thing is inside the product, one crew handles it. If it is felony content, that’s a exclusive crew. So, no, matters are not simply auto-translated. We do have native audio system concerned to ensure the content material genuinely makes experience in every precise context.

Using OpenAI, Colab, and MVPs to Prototype SEO Ideas
Gianluca Fiorelli: So, you’ve been energetic within the network for pretty some months now, sharing all varieties of ideas approximately the way to use AI to construct your own equipment. But earlier than we dive into your adventure—the way you’ve been studying and figuring things out, which I assume is a great instance for a whole lot of people, myself included—I need to ask: is AI virtually making your life less complicated? Especially in relation to that whole prep segment all of us deal with, the part that eats up so much time in our paintings?

Gus Pelogia: Yeah, it is been without a doubt beneficial. I think it’s all approximately identifying what works for you, proper? Personally, I more often than not use OpenAI. So if I want to test some thing non-public, I use my very own API key—I’ve were given a few credit there, perhaps even an automobile-renew installation—simply so I can play with Screaming Frog or check different things.

If it’s something extra legitimate, like associated with Indeed or any of our internal equipment, then I undergo our right channels—the usage of our team’s API keys and all that.

Overall, it is been superb beneficial. There’s a variety of trial and error. Like, for instance, I become operating on tagging pages consistent with a selected taxonomy we use. The version would once in a while generate variations of the tag—like if the tag turned into Switching Careers, it might output Finding New Careers as a substitute. So you realize, k, it’s now not doing precisely what I need. Then you tweak the prompt and take a look at again. But you begin to observe—it’ll usually introduce moderate changes.

At that point, I ask myself: is it nonetheless doing 80% of what I need? If sure, cool—I’ll manually assessment the rest. But once I get it to a place wherein it in most cases works, I can take it to the crew and say, “Hey, we ought to use a records scientist to build this nicely.”

I truly do that loads—build an MVP myself, show that it is viable, and then hand it off to a group which could take it further. Often, they’re greater informed approximately the technical side anyway, so that they absolutely degree it up. But I use AI to validate the concept first: Can this be carried out? If the answer is sure, then extremely good—allow’s convey in the actual professionals to scale it.

That’s the type of perception I need, whether it’s for search engine optimization or product.

Gianluca Fiorelli: You’re using typically for prototyping processes can be subsequently established or now not.

Gus Pelogia: Yeah, that’s a part of it. I changed into the use of it to find associated articles, so I wrote a bit of code—only a small test—and it labored. It really labored in Google Colab, using just the expertise I already had. And that’s the key for me.

I’ve attempted getting to know Python so typically before, but I’d constantly get stuck—just seeking to install it nicely, or going via a course, or studying someone’s educational. Then I discovered out I should use Google Colab and realized, “Wait, all of the installation stuff is already looked after?” So I attempted it out and concept, “Oh, okay. This definitely works!”

And as soon as I noticed the consequences, as soon as I should observe the output and say, “Yeah, that’s what I predicted to happen,” that became enough. It did the task. Sure, maybe we’ll subsequently need a better version—maybe a person to build it properly, with a cleanser UI and more polished capabilities—however this initial test gave me confidence.

If I can show the concept works, even in a difficult form, then I sense exact about handing it off to a person who can honestly carry it to existence. I can justify having an engineer spend or 3 months constructing out a high-quality version of it.

Also watch

For more on AI’s impact on groups, listen to our episode, “New Challenges for Digital Agencies” providing Heather Physioc and Kevin Gibbons. They dig into the actual-international impact of AI on employer fashions, workflows, and client relationships. Definitely worth a concentrate!

Gianluca Fiorelli: I agree. Looking again, I in reality desire we’d had gear like OpenAI, Gemini, or maybe simply more advanced AI returned then.

For example, I bear in mind when I become assisting Glassdoor with Italian localization. I asked for get right of entry to to their internal search information so I ought to better understand how customers have been clustering terms—how classes formed obviously via search behavior. That turned out to be a actually treasured workout. It helped me completely grasp simply what number of specific approaches humans can describe the exact identical issue.

Now, with equipment like OpenAI and big language fashions, natural language processing is so much extra effective—and beneficial for exactly this form of problem. Back then, seeking to cluster and categorize matters manually should truely power you loopy. We tried constructing mechanisms to manage it, however it turned into nowhere close to as clean as it is nowadays.

I imagine you are already doing this, using these equipment to make experience of the overpowering sort of search terms. It can assist optimize the structure of a site like Indeed and perhaps even floor absolutely new task categories.

Because, as we usually say, ninety% of the roles our children can have don’t even exist yet. But seek records may already be giving us guidelines. Maybe it’s pointing to some thing new—some thing that must be presented as its personal class.

Gus Pelogia: Yeah, I think it receives virtually exciting after you’re interior a massive employer—there are just so many directions you could move and so many special methods to do things. What I enjoy most is the process of exploring the ones directions.

We have internal databases in which you could test how positive pages are acting or see what number of jobs we’ve got in a selected vicinity. And when you start digging, you recognise there are a variety of inner databases—and all of them do slightly various things. Then you’ll meet a person from the cell crew and discover they are running on something you might absolutely collaborate on.

So a lot of it in reality comes down to connecting with the right human beings. I often just hop into organization chats or forums and start asking questions. Sometimes that results in introducing myself to someone new, after which I’ll e-book a name to learn the way some thing works.

It’s not even about “who you recognize” inside the conventional feel. For the ones listening, it’s now not like you want to satisfy all of the better-ups. Honestly, I’ve by no means even met lots of those human beings in man or woman—and but they’re nevertheless top notch willing to assist.

It can be lots to navigate, but I try and start with: “Okay, what are we calling this element?” Like, in one in all my current tasks, I located we already have a taxonomy that standardizes how things are tagged throughout the enterprise. So as opposed to growing some thing new only for my pages, I observed that present device—due to the fact there’s already a group preserving it and it’s widely followed.

Once you discover the ones nuggets—like a shared taxonomy—you understand you could integrate with different merchandise greater without problems just via speakme the same language. And unexpectedly, the whole thing gets a whole lot smoother.

Learning AI & Python Without a Coding Background
Gianluca Fiorelli: So, what you’re announcing brings me again to some thing you cited in advance in our conversation: even if we’re working remotely—like so many big organizations do these days—actually knowing the human beings you figure with is critical. Not only for a more pleasing paintings life, however also for sincerely getting matters finished and pushing tasks ahead.

Now, bringing it again to me—k, we’re speaking about AI and how it can help us. A lot of people are afraid that AI will update them, that’s absolutely understandable. But perhaps, just maybe, AI isn’t right here to update us. Maybe it’s right here to beautify what we’re able to in enterprise. At the equal time, AI is showing us simply how crucial the human element certainly is.

One of the things that makes us so human is interest. And you’re truly a awesome example of that. Like me—I come from a humanities heritage, you’re a journalist, and we’ve each had to dive into technical stuff. You’ve pushed yourself to examine, and also you’re surely top at sharing what you’ve located and the way you figured things out.

So I’m curious—how did you start teaching yourself all this? What was the doorstep-through-step process for stepping into AI, operating with OpenAI gear, and subsequently developing your personal initiatives? I still recall those tremendous examples you shared at the conference in Finland last summer season.

Gus Pelogia: Uh, yeah—so I suppose the whole manner of coming across this stuff form of began with, um… Was it—oh, sorry—yeah, it was Mike King. He wrote this actually long article about embeddings and cosine similarity. I recollect spending over an hour simply trying to wrap my head around what he become talking about. It got definitely complex.

At one point, I became just sitting at the sofa—it was a Saturday. My daughter became sound asleep, my wife changed into running, and I turned into deep into trying to understand these items. It took me a few days. I study the object a pair more times, did other matters, came back to it. And finally, I commenced wondering, “Okay, if I simplify this—if I say it in my own phrases—I suppose I can explain it a bit better.”

That’s additionally once I keep in mind discovering Google Colab. I assume I study somewhere that ChatGPT ought to generate code, so I gave it a try. I commenced without a doubt simple. I’d ask such things as, “Can you try this? If I give you one CSV file, can you split it into 10?” Stuff like that. And it labored.

So I started out asking it to do extra—like looking into cosine similarity. Then I noticed that Screaming Frog had introduced a characteristic that let you extract embeddings. And I became like, “Wait a minute—I examine approximately embeddings in that article via Mike King!” So it began to click on. If the ones pieces hadn’t already been obtainable, I don’t assume I would’ve made the connection.

But as soon as I found out a bit of a system—like, “Oh, I can ask ChatGPT for code, test it, then build on top of it”—that changed the whole thing. I’d try some thing new in Colab, upload a layer of complexity, ask any other question, and simply keep going. Little through little, I found out now not just what to invite, but a way to ask. That’s how I form of stumbled into this complete universe.

It all came from just being curious. Honestly, I’ve always worked closely with engineers and developers, and I’ve continually been curious about what they can do. I’ve regularly wished I had the ones skills myself. Maybe that’s part of why I ended up in product—due to the fact I’m good at seeing what can be done, breaking it down into smaller components, constructing a case for it, and convincing humans that it’s well worth doing. Then I convey it to the engineers who do the actual heavy lifting.

So yeah, I wish that solutions your question.

Gianluca Fiorelli: No—yeah—absolutely, sure, you completely responded my query. It form of jogs my memory of a smaller-scale instance, ordinarily because I don’t paintings with engineers quite regularly—I’m a consultant, so I’m now not embedded in a group—however over the last twenty years, I’ve constructed a number of friendships with folks who are manner more technically professional than I am, particularly in relation to coding.

So I’ve been lucky. For example, once I’m experimenting with some thing—like trying out named entity recognition using OpenAI—I might say, “Hey, I commonly do it this way. Can you help me construct a device that does this at scale?” And I’ve got parents I can reach out to who assist make that show up.

And I completely consider you: that’s the only actual way to analyze. It’s like when we were youngsters and we’d take aside a clock simply to see the way it worked—after which project ourselves to place it again together. Same thing here. Back whilst we were beginning out in SEO, the only manner to learn was to open up a internet site and simply begin messing with it.

The Impact of AI Search on Companies Like Indeed
Gianluca Fiorelli: Now, it’s comparable—however instead of messing with web sites, we’re poking at OpenAI, ChatGPT, generative AI, that whole panorama. I’m curious: How an awful lot do you watched those AI gear are impacting groups like Indeed?

Gus Pelogia: I’m not sure how a great deal I can share approximately all of those.

Gianluca Fiorelli: No, whether or not you are seeing an impact or not.

Gus Pelogia: Yeah, you do begin to see some adjustments in conduct. People are coming in from those new systems and making use of for jobs, so matters are honestly moving. I assume usual, the sector of search is converting—and it’s going to alternate a lot for anyone.

In specific, I suppose lots of our traditional pinnacle-of-funnel techniques are going to cut back. I noticed a person say something like, “Do we really need another blog post from a dentist explaining what a hollow space is?” And it’s proper—so much of that content just repeats the identical facts across lots of pages, all looking to persuade Google that theirs is the exceptional model. But virtually, they’re nearly same.

So I suppose anyone will should evolve their technique to top-of-funnel content. We’re already searching closely at how humans are locating us and how they’re engaging, and I’m certain we’ll see strategic shifts—now not only for us, but throughout the board in SEO—to conform to this new landscape.

Traffic may move down overall, but I don’t necessarily assume that’ll imply a drop in conversions. The impact there might clearly be pretty neutral.

Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah. The traditional difference we always make—it’s now not pretty much visitors volume. It’s approximately traffic quality. Even if the site visitors is smaller, it is able to still be treasured if the conversion price stays the equal or even improves. That’s often because the people touchdown to your web page are deliberately searching for some thing, and even if they’ve already seen a huge solution from Google, Bing, or some other LLM, they’re nonetheless clicking thru as it sincerely pursuits them.

So the actual paintings turns into: how can we capture their interest? Especially when your content is probably used by those systems. That’s something I plan to explore extra deeply in an upcoming episode of Search Session: a way to do conversion rate optimization however for the elements in SERPs we can manipulate—beyond the usual rich effects—like microcopy. How do we write content that we realize can be pulled into an AI-generated answer or featured snippet? In the past, we tried to optimize for featured snippets with out giving everything away, and that’s nevertheless a balancing act.

Zooming out a chunk, enhancing site visitors high-quality means wondering more holistically. It’s no longer just a technical SEO challenge anymore—it’s a collaborative one. It entails product teams, CRO experts, and even web designers. The attitude has to shift from “just bring in visitors” to “deliver in qualified traffic and make it stick.”

This is probably a brand new awareness for us in SEO. We’re no longer simply liable for acquisition anymore, however additionally for supporting keep users engaged after they land. That means exploring new methods to create synergy with other channels.

We’re already seeing LLMs pulling in content material from social systems. And Google is beginning to show greater short-form videos from YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, and so forth. So collaboration throughout teams—social, owned media, it all—isn’t simply helpful anymore, it’s important.

Are you seeing this equal need from the other channels too? Are social and owned media groups additionally feeling the frenzy to work extra carefully with search engine optimization?

Gus Pelogia: I haven’t truly visible a lot change in that path, to be honest. I think it’s nonetheless quite early for lots of this stuff. Like with generative AI, absolutely everyone’s nonetheless trying to determine out the way to song impact and optimize in those regions.

There’s nonetheless loads of dialogue—like, do these models truly observe structured records or no longer? You hear each aspects, and those types of conversations are nonetheless ongoing.

Personally, I’ve were given a few theories I’m operating thru. I’m running some assessments—like, if I write a chunk of content on Indeed or someplace similar, how lengthy does it take before it suggests up in ChatGPT? I noticed you examined this week. It turned into simply at some point or two proper?

Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes, I wanted to run a quick check just more than one days after the e-book. So I started out asking some questions—simply the usage of ChatGPT in this situation. I knew I become talking approximately some thing that changed into within the piece I’d simply published, and ChatGPT had already ingested it via Search GPT.

As you probably understand, there’s a distinction among conventional ChatGPT and Search GPT. With classic, it’s extra just like the vintage-school Google—you’d must wait a while on your content material to get picked up and show up in responses. But with Search GPT, it became nearly on the spot. It showed my content as the first result, which become superb exciting.

So yeah, it’s simply getting faster. And obviously, that still manner Bing became short to index my content too.

Gus Pelogia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I assume that’s without a doubt an awesome check. And that’s what I had in mind too. Like, how wouldn’t it go? And I’m not searching out a definitive answer here, because definitely, I don’t have one.

But once you’re in a extra aggressive area—in which there’s real call for and present answers—the question will become: how long does it take for you to persuade that solution?

Can you or your logo grow to be a depended on source? Or in case you’re already taken into consideration a supply, and also you cross back to replace or optimize your content material—perhaps it is some thing that mentions your logo along side some others—how do you steer that content material to truely spotlight what makes you stand out?

How do you tweak or have an impact on that answer so it better reflects what you need people to see?

Gianluca Fiorelli: Well, it’s now not manipulation; it’s impact, haha.

Gus Pelogia: I recognize the phrase “control” has a awful popularity, however it kind of depends, ? Like, you may shape Play-Doh into some thing cool.

Anyway, how do you, um, affect the reaction to focus on the great things approximately your brand? I assume that’s going to be a without a doubt amusing space to explore.

Right now, I’m dabbling right here and there—just experimenting—however pretty soon, I’ll be diving in fully and strolling those tests myself. I’m excited to immerse myself in that whole global.

The Proust Questionnaire
Gianluca Fiorelli: True, proper. Okay—nicely, what a outstanding conversation. I suggest, the best element lacking is a beer to make it even higher.

Gus Pelogia: Yes, that’d be first-class.

Gianluca Fiorelli: Let’s move directly to the a part of the consultation that’s turning into a piece of a classic. It’s where I ask you a chain of, permit’s say, non-public—but now not too non-public—questions. The idea is which you answer fast, with out overthinking it. Just say anything comes immediately out of your coronary heart, your brain, and your mouth.

It’s a amusing way to get to recognise someone a touch better—both for the character answering and people listening in.

So, here we move. First query: What’s your preferred sound?

Gus Pelogia: My favourite sound? Hmm… I’m not certain—maybe rain. It’s so relaxing, as long as you don’t have to move outdoor. I don’t recognize—I’ve by no means absolutely thought about my favored sounds. Um… k, right here’s one which truely touches my coronary heart: once I visit daycare or come back home, and my daughter sees me, she just screams from something room she’s in and is derived going for walks to me. That’s a excellent sound.

Gianluca Fiorelli: Okay. And what are a number of the belongings you experience most when you have time to yourself?

Gus Pelogia: Right now, what I really revel in—like, simply enjoy—is going to the fitness center. I don’t pass over a day. I pass in the future, relaxation the next, then move again. It’s grow to be a genuinely enjoyable part of my habitual.

It’s this kind of addiction now that even this week, when I’m feeling a chunk beneath the climate—and we couldn’t record the day prior to this like we deliberate—I nonetheless found myself questioning, I can’t miss the gym today. Hopefully, I’ll start feeling better quickly so I can move this night.

So yeah, it’s some thing I actually love doing, and I sense off if I omit it.

Gianluca Fiorelli: So, uh, what is a film you have seen the most instances? If there is one.

Gus Pelogia: Not a film, however a series—I spent limitless hours looking Seinfeld. I truely love the display. I’m usually quoting random traces from it. I even convinced my spouse to get me the Seinfeld LEGO set—it’s in reality up on the wall right right here. So yeah, Seinfeld is truly my primary display, despite the fact that I haven’t watched it in a while.

I may want to rewatch any episode whenever.

Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, I find it irresistible too. Seinfeld—after I turned into operating in television, I turned into sincerely trying without a doubt tough to buy the TV rights for Seinfeld for cable TV in Italy. But, you know, Fox had more money, so that they ended up getting it. We got here quite close, although! We did manage to get the TV rights for The Office—the UK version—along with a group of Star Trek shows and so on. It was a sincerely fun and exciting time in my expert life.

Anyway, some other query for you. You’ve lived in pretty some locations—you’re type of a globetrotter, proper? What would you assert is the only excellent you cherished maximum about each country you’ve lived in, consisting of Brazil?

Gus Pelogia: Um, yeah, I suppose what I love and omit most about Brazil is simply having all my buddies round—those deep, lasting connections that don’t fade with time. I have youth pals and others I met as an person, and we’ve been near for 15, twenty years. I ought to fly again the following day, and it would be like no time has passed. We’d still have so much to talk about, like we hadn’t neglected a unmarried day.

Argentina changed into wherein I first discovered to live as an expat. It’s where I started out assembly humans from all kinds of cultures and in reality commenced to experience like a worldwide citizen. I realized that there isn’t just one proper way to do matters—there are so many distinct tactics to existence beyond what I grew up with.

Then there’s Amsterdam—or Holland in trendy—which was fascinating. People there are especially direct and live in such a exclusive way from what I became used to. I’d find myself at random house events with human beings I’d simply met, biking anywhere. In Brazil, vehicles are often a status image—human beings display off their wealth thru what they power. But in the Netherlands, my boss, who ran a organisation of 30 humans and earned a exceptional revenue, might ride round on a cheap motorcycle. And no one cared. There’s simply much less focus on power and appearances, and that made me feel more at home.

Now I’m in Ireland, and it feels like the place where I’m actually building my existence. I’ve gotten used to the rhythm right here. Irish human beings are distinctly friendly, and I met my wife right here. It simply looks like a solid area to relax, and truely, I think this is probably in which I’ll live.

Gianluca Fiorelli: Cool. So, speaking of Ireland—I understand you’re involved in the scene there, specifically because you stay in Dublin, if I’m now not improper? Right. Dublin is type of the European tech hub, way to all the advantages Ireland offers large organizations for setting up their offices. It’s a truly multicultural city, and I consider the SEO community reflects that.

I don’t forget Learning Bound—you had been worried with that too, proper? I genuinely presented there as soon as! It’s no longer a big community, likely because of demographics, but it is definitely an lively one.

I’m curious—are you continue to doing stuff with that institution? Or have you ever began something new, perhaps a greater casual SEO meetup or mission?

Gus Pelogia: Yes, the first SearchIRL meetup is the following day, certainly. So we’re recording on the twenty sixth. It’s on the 27th of March.

Gianluca Fiorelli: Oh, it already passed off around the time we published this episode. Are you making plans to make it a recurring element, or are you just letting it take place randomly?

Gus Pelogia: So, I’m aiming to do that 4 times a year. And just to present a bit of context—every 12 months, I write down a listing of goals for the approaching 12 months. These may be personal or work-associated. One of the desires I set this time became to arrange a meetup in Ireland at the least 4 instances this 12 months—basically, once in step with quarter, which feels very plausible.

Three months among activities is plenty of time to put together, so I got started. When I published approximately it on LinkedIn, a person reached out—he works in search engine optimization for a resort chain—and said, “Hey, perhaps I permit you to find a venue.” Just the truth that I shared the concept publicly caused a person stepping in to help, which was wonderful.

He confirmed me 3 or 4 extraordinary venue options, and we picked one. That’s the way it all came together. If I hadn’t published approximately it, I probable might’ve stored wondering, “Yeah, I’ll get to it… perhaps next month,” and it might’ve just fizzled out. But as soon as someone else got worried, it gave the whole thing momentum.

That’s some thing I try to do in each meeting—get matters moving. I’ll advocate next steps, assign obligations, and suggest a date. And that’s precisely what came about with Luke. He said, “Let’s do it. I’ll display you a few venues. How approximately subsequent week?” And all at once, it become real. I had to carve out multiple hours to check out the venues, and by using the give up of that week, we had a place and a date locked in. It changed into happening.

And because I’d devoted to it publicly—and involved others—I needed to follow thru. I’m virtually excited about it. As some distance as I recognise, there aren’t any other search engine marketing activities taking place in Dublin or Ireland right now. I’m now not doing this to make cash; I’m in reality protecting the meals expenses out of pocket for this first one. Hopefully, I can get some sponsors to help cowl fees for destiny occasions.

But for me, it’s surely about constructing a network—bringing human beings together and seeing who else is offered doing search engine marketing. I understand the parents I paintings with at Indeed, a few people at Wolfgang, maybe or three other companies… but that’s about it. I realize there are others doing surely cool matters, and I’d love to connect and study from them, too.

Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It’s additionally certainly profitable—this whole journey of contributing to and preserving a stay network. And all of us recognise about the search engine optimization network and its impact. The positive components of the search engine marketing community without a doubt stand out—they outweigh the demanding situations that come with any network.

Thank you a lot. This was a virtually top communique, and it was a real pleasure having you on this episode of Search Session. I wish you a fast restoration—I realize you’ve had a piece of a health difficulty these days. Take care, and I surely wish to see you once more in actual lifestyles soon.

Gus Pelogia: Yeah, thanks for inviting me. I’ve actually been following your work for pretty some time, even before we met, so I turned into actually happy whilst you reached out and concept of me as an amazing suit for something you’re doing. Hopefully, the humans looking or listening got at the least a touch something exciting—some thing they could analyze from, build on, or turn into some thing even better for themselves.

Gianluca Fiorelli: Maybe it sparked an idea for them—and with any luck, they may percentage it with us, too. Thank you a lot! Bye-bye!